Daisho Con

This show is simply amazing.. it airs on Spike TV at 9:00 P.M. It pits two warriors from different cultures and time periods against each other and finds out who would win!

They determine the winner by studying their tactics and having the weapons tested by trained experts in the field of each particular warrior. They load the statistics into a computer and simulate 1000 battles.. the one to win the most battles takes the title of Deadliest Warrior!

So far there have been four episodes

1: Apache Vs. Gladiator

2: Ninja Vs. Spartan

3: Samurai Vs. Viking

4: Pirate Vs. Knight

Episode 5 airs next tuesday at 9:00 P.M. and its Yakuza Vs. Mafia

Knight should beat pirate, hands down.

Oh god, this show is AWESOME!!!!!

Couchmaster and I watched all the episodes so far and it is amazingly cool. (nerdgasm)

Vulaas, you would think that a knight would take down a pirate...but perhaps you have forgotten a pirate's blackpowder weaponry (guns, grenadas)

I can't wait for Yakuza vs. Mafia

Knights lose, as they should Musket's pwn armor.

As far as the show goes, it's fun. It's a giant nerd argument, and love those. I'd like to know how they gather data, because my guess is that the methodology sucks. Nobody ever mentioned that the best way to kill a knight in full plate is to knock him over and the slice his throat while he turtle fails. Not once. That's roughly how the fight ended. They also don't look at potential battlefields. On a pirates home turf the knight gets owned, while it's a fair fight on the knights turf. So in theory the pirate should win half the battles automatically simply because half their battles should take place on their home turf(A hot sticky wet sandy(or boaty) hellhole where armor is a deathtrap.

Yeah, they tend to neglect the environmental element. That's why Spartan won against Ninja. The fight they staged with the two was so stupid, too. The ninja started out in a tree. It should have ended right then and there, if it was a real ninja.

Hate to disagree Toast, but real Ninjas(not anime ninjas) sucked. Anime ninjas qualify as mages or superheroes more than anything else. Real Ninjas weren't even warriors. They were spies and assassins. I had this conversation with my Uncle(a bit of an expert in Japanese culture) at his wedding.(My uncle is a Samurai within the SCA, has been prince twice and King once. For referance his SCA name is Raito) Several people within Falcon's gate know him and the involved people at least know of him.

That said yes Naruto does beat a random Spartan, but Darth Leoninjustron wins all any way so it really doesn't matter.

Ah...this is what my old adviser called "Mental Masturbation." heh heh. Good times, eh Nick?

Aminar wrote:Hate to disagree Toast, but real Ninjas(not anime ninjas) sucked. Anime ninjas qualify as mages or superheroes more than anything else. Real Ninjas weren't even warriors. They were spies and assassins. I had this conversation with my Uncle(a bit of an expert in Japanese culture) at his wedding.(My uncle is a Samurai within the SCA, has been prince twice and King once. For referance his SCA name is Raito) Several people within Falcon's gate know him and the involved people at least know of him.

That said yes Naruto does beat a random Spartan, but Darth Leoninjustron wins all any way so it really doesn't matter.

Andrew again you fail... Ninja's didn't "suck" they just didn't do what the general public thinks they did. Actually they were quite good at their specific area of expertise... and getting an opinion on Ninja from a Samurai was a bad idea in the first place. Since in japanese culture Ninja were viewed as even lower than slaves... or merchants.

Aminar wrote:Hate to disagree Toast, but real Ninjas(not anime ninjas) sucked. Anime ninjas qualify as mages or superheroes more than anything else. Real Ninjas weren't even warriors. They were spies and assassins. I had this conversation with my Uncle(a bit of an expert in Japanese culture) at his wedding.(My uncle is a Samurai within the SCA, has been prince twice and King once. For referance his SCA name is Raito) Several people within Falcon's gate know him and the involved people at least know of him.

That said yes Naruto does beat a random Spartan, but Darth Leoninjustron wins all any way so it really doesn't matter.

By saying 'Naruto Ninjas', you assumed that I liked that series in the first place, and would therefore consider a 13-year-old boy in an orange jumpsuit a 'real ninja'.

God no. I was referring to 'real ninjas', Aminar. And real ninjas are trained to have very high accuracy. It should have ended while he was in the tree because A) The Spartan didn't see him, so he had the stealth advantage, and B) He had poison darts.

But no. THe ninja actually pulled a Naruto and hopped out of the tree and drew his sword. *facepalm* Real ninjas do not do that.

Naruto is a real ninja He just happens to turn into a big fox and can clone himself thousands of times.
Okay, definitely not in the historical sense.

Anyhow, I COMPLETELY agree with Toast. The way they started out that fight was incredibly stupid. When I watched it with Allen I was like: "it's over right here!" There's no way a ninja would jump down from that tree and draw his sword He'd surprise him with a poison dart in the back and then climb the tree even higher. Game over.

I dont' mind that they dont' take the environment into consideration, I dont' think they should really. But I do mind when they show the warriors making stupid tactical decisions that would be unlike their historic counterparts. The ninja vs. spartan fight is really the only time I've seen this though.

Spittin Wheelie wrote:Naruto is a real ninja He just happens to turn into a big fox and can clone himself thousands of times.
Okay, definitely not in the historical sense.

Anyhow, I COMPLETELY agree with Toast. The way they started out that fight was incredibly stupid. When I watched it with Allen I was like: "it's over right here!" There's no way a ninja would jump down from that tree and draw his sword He'd surprise him with a poison dart in the back and then climb the tree even higher. Game over.

I dont' mind that they dont' take the environment into consideration, I dont' think they should really. But I do mind when they show the warriors making stupid tactical decisions that would be unlike their historic counterparts. The ninja vs. spartan fight is really the only time I've seen this though.

I understand how environment can be a hassle with a show like this, but with a ninja, environment is everything. A ninja is better in a place with rooftops or trees, than in an open field where a Spartan would excel. Kara and I sat down and watched the episode, and we had a similar discussion about it.

Plus, one of the Spartan experts was kinda being a jerk to the ninja people. Not that this is relevant to the argument or anything.

Those battles are meant to show off weapons usage, not to actually show a fight. Fact is ninjas are not warriors, they are spies.

And Toast I said Anime Ninja, I said Naruto later as the premier example of anime ninja, but all anime ninja do similar things to naruto, just not in blaze orange.

And Allen, asking an expert on the culture, outside of his rping field, should indicate he is answering without bias.
End of story, Ninjas are not meant for a straight fight, and are not trained to deal with truly capable warriors. They are assassins and spies. Thus they should in fact lose to most things on that show, within a historical sense.)

Aminar wrote:Those battles are meant to show off weapons usage, not to actually show a fight. Fact is ninjas are not warriors, they are spies.

And Toast I said Anime Ninja, I said Naruto later as the premier example of anime ninja, but all anime ninja do similar things to naruto, just not in blaze orange.

And Allen, asking an expert on the culture, outside of his rping field, should indicate he is answering without bias.
End of story, Ninjas are not meant for a straight fight, and are not trained to deal with truly capable warriors. They are assassins and spies. Thus they should in fact lose to most things on that show, within a historical sense.)

This is why I don't think the show is a true representation of a certain warrior's skills. They only cover weapons. Fact is, there's more to fighting than who has the better weapon.

Also, when in the world would a Spartan and a Ninja have to fight, anyway? Another inaccurate representation.

And the show doesn't cover warriors only, Aminar. One episode had pirates. They aren't really warriors. Hell, the next one is about organized crime. I still can't believe they're doing that, if they're only going by weapon usage. There's a lot more to organized crime than that.

What I would like to see is them pairing warriors together that would make a little more sense. Not just 'pull two names out of a hat', which is what they seem to be doing now.

have you watched the show? its not just weapons its how those weapons are used. they measure all different types of varying data. they measure the statistics based on actual experts and how they wield those weapons using the data collected they run 1000 simulations comparing the data. Also the entire purpose to the show is to put warriors against eachother whom have never before fought or would have fought. its a curiosity.

In terms of your argument about pirates not being warriors that's just a very annoying statement. your struggling to find an argument now. Also you don't take into account just how truly powerful and experienced a spartan was. The movie 300 is based on actual events that occurred in history 300 Spartans really did kill over 100,000 Persians. they were truly a force to be reckoned with.

Most of the battles before this usually went to the faster and more agile opponents. Apache, samurai, pirates. ninja in general just weren't the better fighter in this.

No Sid, 300 Spartans and a few thousand slaves did, big difference there. 300 is overblown.
That said, pirates were warriors, they engaged in direct combat all the time, just not if they didn't have to. but taking on military vessels, which most merchant vessels qualified as at the time takes fighting.

And yes we agree Toast that it's not an accurately done show. However the results are typically close. And I'd give a spartan just as good of odds in a city, they sacked cities all the time. They sacked cities after they were done sacking cities as cooldown (referance the Odyssey, in which the Greeks after sacking Troy went somewhere else and belw off steam by sacking another city.)
God I love three way arguments.

I say the show sucks at accuracy because they don't include enough.

Toast says it sucks cause Ninjas lost.

Sid claims that the accuracy is close, which it could be, I still need to see more info on how they do this. What is their algorithm. Does it include, weariness, mobility, terrain, honor, training, weather, motivation, how are hits treated. How much do these all matter.
While I question their algorithm I do agree with all the resuts so far.

Apache warriors were warriors, while gladiators were slaves, lacking in true motivation, training, experience, or equipment famiarity.
Spartans beat Ninja, Spartans were an elite warrior caste bread to be warriors, and raised under incredibly harsh conditions. Ninjas were poorly equipped commoners trained to drop poison in food, listen to conversations through paper walls, snipe people, and sneak around.
Samurai were well trained, disciplined and motivated warriors with great equipment, Vikings were experienced Savage pirates/farmers. This one was close, should have been close, but should have and did go to Samurai.
Pirates vs Knights, Pirates have Guns, and weren't required to use ball ammo like the show used in the pistol, there are cylindrical pointy rounds used to penetrate armor and odds are Pirates had them., Knights are slow clunky and behind the times compared to Pirates.

And Toast either you missed some of my point and are trying to be sarcastic, or you really don't get the point of the show. Say Bbill and Ted got bored and decided to have a Spartan vs Ninja deathmatch to prove their argument because Keanu believes that Ninjas can tap into crazy matrix powers and the other guy disagrees. They have a time Machine. For everybody else, we have this show.