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You keep a communion wafer? Prepare for death threats

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You keep a communion wafer? Prepare for death threats

Postby Spittin Wheelie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:02 am

Taken from another forum I frequent for use as a debate:

A University of Central Florida student was upset that masses were being held on campus, so he decided to take a communion wafer home. Death threats and general Catholic rage ensues.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/p....1.1&sflg=1



FOX 35 NEWS

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) --A UCF student claims he’s getting death threats for messing with something sacred.


Webster Cook says he smuggled a Eucharist, a small bread wafer that to Catholics symbolic of the Body of Christ after a priest blesses it, out of mass, didn’t eat it as he was supposed to do, but instead walked with it.

Catholics worldwide became furious.

Webster’s friend, who didn’t want to show his face, said he took the Eucharist, to show him what it meant to Catholics.

Webster gave the wafer back, but the Catholic League, a national watchdog organization for Catholic rights claims that is not enough.

“We don’t know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was,” said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. “However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it.”

We just expect the University to take this seriously,” she added “To send a message to not just Mr. Cook but the whole community that this kind of really complete sacrilege will not be tolerated.”

Webster just wants all of this to go away. Especially now that he feels his life is in danger.

University officials said, that as for right now, Webster Cook is not in trouble. If anyone or any group wants to file a formal complaint with the University through the student judicial system, they can.

It that happens, Webster will go through a hearing either in front of an administrative panel or a panel of his peers.



Basically UCF is saying, as long as "anybody" complains, they'll make this kid go through a hearing/panel.


http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/...bill_donohu.php




So far today, I have received 39 pieces of personal hate mail of varying degrees of literacy, all because I was rude to a cracker. Four of them have included death threats, a personal one day record. Thirty-four of them have demanded that I be fired. Twenty-five of them have told me to desecrate a copy of the Koran, instead, or in some similar way offend Muslims, because — in a multiplicity of ironic cluelessness — apparently only some religious icons must be protected, and I would only offend Catholics because they are all so nice that none of them would wish me harm. I even have one email that says I should be fired, that the author would like to kill me, and that I only criticize because Catholics are so gentle and kind.

Oh, and of course, the university president's office has also received lots of mail demanding my immediate ouster (keep in mind, though…Catholics are no threat to anyone at all.) I don't know how much, but since Donohue published the president's email address and not mine, I imagine it's much greater than what I've seen. Those lovely Dark Age fanatics at the Catholic League have started a write-in campaign to start up an inquisition.

So no poll-crashing today. Instead, I would appreciate it if you would write a short note to President Robert Bruininks in support (he's going to hate me for this). I have to ask for a few constraints, though: only do so if you are willing to sign a real name to it — most of the complaint mail I'm getting uses fake names, making it much less persuasive — and that, unlike the religious screeds I'm seeing, you take the time to proofread and send him something that at least looks like a high school graduate wrote it, which will put you way above the level of the hate mail. Be polite and rational, too!

If you really want to impress, send him regular mail at this address:

President Robert H. Bruininks
202 Morrill Hall
100 Church Street S.E.
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN 55455

Bill Donohue has a loud, braying voice, and he's already trying to stir up a witch hunt. We need a counter-campaign from the secular community.


This could make for some interesting discussion, if I think it's getting out of hand though I'll just close the thread.
I'll start off with my points of view:

1. I find the fact that catholics are making such a big deal over a cracker to be ridiculous. I don't know much about the catholic religion, so out of curiosity: How important is the Eucharist? Is it actually believed to be the literal body of christ?

2. This kid knew what he was doing when he took the cracker home with him. He was being an attention whore and trying to start something like this. I do believe some light disciplinary action should be taken as it was an on-campus event. There's no excuse for being a jackass.
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Postby SnazzyAzzy83 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:42 am

I agree that he probably should NOT have done what he did. HOWEVER, the general Catholic community is just as if not EVEN MORE wrong for the heck they are putting him through.
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Postby couchmaster on Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:31 pm

Dude i grew up in a Catholic community and my whole family is Catholic (im an agnostic but that is not the point). To be honest if this happened in our community NO ONE WOULD GIVE A poopy!!! I grew up Catholic and i get the idea that he shouldn't have done it but honestly most Catholics wouldn't even care.
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Postby capitocapito on Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:52 pm

Oh noes, he stole Jesus!

But seriously. I love this story. Slam on organized religion. Boy steals cookie, gets death threats. From christians.

I love how big of a deal this became. This isn't an issue about stealing a cookie. It's a respect thing.
Theoretically, this should still go through the books. Can he really be charged with a hate crime? It depends on how much of a deal he made about it. I would argue that the catholics created more press.

Could he be charged with stealing? I doubt it.
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Postby Tom_Bombadil on Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:27 pm

The kid really shouldn't have, the Eucharist is the center of Catholicism and a lot of people (as evidenced by the letters and such) take it quite seriously. It may be something to take seriously, but they too probably are in the wrong here as well. There are a lot of Catholics, and a percentage of them are rather brash about the faith. The Ueber Catholics, as I call them. The Catholic League...h'oh boy. There's a fun group...

I, as a practicing Catholic, am not pleased with what the guy did. I don't think it is right to send him a death threat, though. If I were next to him I would suggest a different way to protest masses being celebrated on his school's campus. At least he returned it. As far as I am concerned, they could put in in a Monstrance or Tabernacle and it's all good. But that's me.
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Postby 1stAgent on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:09 pm

Thank God I'm an atheist. :roll:
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Postby Aramalas on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:26 pm

He shouldn't have done it. But hate mail and death threats aren't very Catholic or Christian, so I really think the Catholic Church should see to these people being Excommunicated. Clearly they don't know a damn thing about what their own religion preaches. Love for God, and through God, your fellow man.
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Postby Aramalas on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:29 pm

Oh, just an afterthought...is writing about Catholicism while taking a dump a sin? Any idea on that Tom?
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Postby Langland on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:33 pm

I can't believe my Church would do that. I am upset that he took the Eucharist and didn't consume it but sending him hate mail is wrong too. But maybe it's just Florida too. Maybe it's the whole attitude of Florida that pushed something like this.
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Postby Aramalas on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:39 pm

Langland wrote:I can't believe my Church would do that. I am upset that he took the Eucharist and didn't consume it but sending him hate mail is wrong too. But maybe it's just Florida too. Maybe it's the whole attitude of Florida that pushed something like this.


Hmm, perhaps that is a good reason to sell Florida, and all of its Old People to Cuba. Enough Cubans run (float?) there anyway.
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Postby Cheesus on Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:38 pm

1stAgent wrote:Thank God I'm an atheist. :roll:


Best statement ever...+karma
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Postby Usako on Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:44 am

1stAgent wrote:Thank God I'm an atheist. :roll:


AMEN.


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Postby Spittin Wheelie on Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:15 am

Cheesus wrote:
1stAgent wrote:Thank God I'm an atheist. :roll:


Best statement ever...+karma


Haha, I would argue that with this:

Oh, just an afterthought...is writing about Catholicism while taking a dump a sin? Any idea on that Tom?


I laughed hard at this when I pictured Eric taking a dump and posting on here. +karma
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Postby Aramalas on Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:17 am

Spittin Wheelie wrote:
Cheesus wrote:
1stAgent wrote:Thank God I'm an atheist. :roll:


Best statement ever...+karma


Haha, I would argue that with this:

Oh, just an afterthought...is writing about Catholicism while taking a dump a sin? Any idea on that Tom?


I laughed hard at this when I pictured Eric taking a dump and posting on here. +karma


Eww, you pictured that?! You sick bastard.
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Postby KORfan on Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:19 pm

The University of Central Florida is a state school. Why is the state of Florida enforcing a religious doctrine? Is the student a state employee? Was he on duty at the time? I'd be more concerned about a state employee attending religious services while they're on the clock than whether or not they're members of a particular faith. If he wasn't on duty, why is it a concern of his employer, unless he is in a position of setting policy? If he isn't acting as an executive-level recruiter or in a policy-setting role, his activities in his private life have no bearing on his employment.

What crime was committed? How does his action involve hate? What crime was committed? Back when I was a practicing Catholic, they weren't charging for communion wafers. They were willing to hand them out (or the baked bread version) to any who would take it. Are they claiming it was theft? Admittedly, times seem to have changed in some parishes -- the clergy are openly hostile around holidays towards people they don't see often. As I see it, a hate crime is more like burning a cross on a lawn, like what happened at a church in my town earlier this year. Or, y'know, kidnapping someone and beating them to death because they're gay, or burning down African-American churches with the children trapped in the basement.

It's odd, but the Florida statues on hate crimes have this damage threshold of $200 before increased penalties apply. Hate crime penalties raise the level of the offense by one level (see http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0775/SEC085.HTM&Title=-%3E2006-%3ECh0775-%3ESection%20085#0775.085 and triple the damages. If they want to claim that communion wafers cost $200, I want to see a receipt and audit the books of their supplier.

Does anyone want to file a Freedom of Information Act for a list of the email addresses of those who wrote the UCF on this matter?

If the UCF is allowing religious activities on campus, surely they are allowing all religious activities, right? If we're going to allow one group, we have to allow them all, otherwise we're violating the Constitution. Are there any Pastafarians on campus?
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